Hands Relationships

by admin2 on 2015/10/25

Please comment on what this video is showing.


{ 27 comments… read them below or add one }

Rick Pietila October 26, 2015 at 10:17 am

Hands relationship clip. My comment is that this clip is showing a stretch, involving a three way split.


Rick Pietila October 26, 2015 at 1:43 pm

My only other observation is that every movement is slightly different. As if MC is showing us an example of practicing, to find, locate or repeat this movement in order to define a center or equal distribution of power. His eyes are down slightly word himself, which indicates body self awareness practice, rather than visualizing an opponent before him. As far as the relationship between the hands, they appear to grow in length between with each repetition, stretching the center. Front hand positive circle, rear is negative, both on the same line and powered by the core of the body.


Rick Pietila October 26, 2015 at 1:50 pm

This is prob unrelated, but, both hands also start palm facing away from the body, then foreard hand ends palm up, rear hand ends, palm facing word the body as they rotate in relation to each other.


Carlos Hanson October 26, 2015 at 11:09 am

I’ve been noticing the center, torso rotation recently, so watched that first. It seems unchanged each time. While watching that I noticed the hands initially flipping about then settling. After watching the arms and hands, I think there is a transition from the hands being off the line to being on the line. By “on the line” I mean the location where I think my hands should be for Six Sealing Four Closing.

It is most obvious in the change of the right hand. It moves to the front of the body, then starts easing to the right to get on the line where the split should be. Of course, now I wonder if there was a split in all cases, and the line just changed. It looks like the relationship between the hands is the same each time, that is, they are splitting on a line.

The split between the hands is probably the most important point. The direction of the line on which the split occurs might me secondary.


cshum00 October 26, 2015 at 11:33 am

-There is a pivoting point in right forearm between the right hand and the right elbow. Therefore, there is a stretch and between the right hand and the right elbow.
-There is a stretch in the right upper arm which is pulling down the right elbow and the right shoulder.
-There is a pivoting vertical axis dropping down from the right shoulder. This pivoting axis balances the right hand stretch. It does so by stretching towards the left shoulder and down the left elbow.
-There is a finger pointing stretch on the left hand fingers to counteract the left shoulder elbow stretch.
-The right kua vertical axis echoed by the right shoulder have a stretch as well. There is a stretch from the right kua to the right knee and a stretch from the right kua from the left ankle.


James Tam October 26, 2015 at 12:12 pm

Can also be viewed as reciprocating motion from vertical compression to rotational motion of the torso, that is converted to horizontal reciprocating motion of the hands…compression, rotation, spirals and gears. (I also ditto Rick Pietila with respect to three-way split.)

Vertical compression to rotational motion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qoH2Vm1HPU


Kelvin Ho October 26, 2015 at 3:05 pm

Six sealing four closing, with axis of rotation on the right shoulder and kua line.


charlie wishon October 26, 2015 at 4:01 pm

Hands rotate in shun chan. Front hand does not move , rear hand stretches from front hand.


charlie wishon October 26, 2015 at 4:03 pm

As for the rest of the body. It is to be pulled into the line created by the hands


Hans Brendonck October 26, 2015 at 4:36 pm

6 sealing 4 closing with both hands moving/pulling proportionally, this the third kind of the taichi movements


nick tangri October 26, 2015 at 10:41 pm

It was never obvious to me how six sealing four closing fitted in with positive and negative circles. Aren’t all Yilu moves a part of either positive or negative circles? Is six sealing four closing separate from the circles?


Hugo Ramiro October 27, 2015 at 7:55 am

Hi Nick, 6 sealing 4 closing is a double negative. You are correct, all movements in Practical Method are either positive or negative circles.


Hugo Ramiro October 27, 2015 at 8:01 am

Woops, I should say, Nick, that 6 sealing 4 closing is a positive circle, front hand, and negative circle, rear hand.


John Upshaw October 26, 2015 at 5:17 pm

I see proportionality…the front vertical line is the point of rotation and demarcation line. Whatever the distance in front of that line is matched with an equal distanced stretch behind that line…


nick tangri October 26, 2015 at 10:34 pm

In the video “Elbow in, Six Sealing Four Closing,” Master Chen describes finding the straight line in the curve. Each hand has its own axis, they behave as gears. The straight line is the resultant vector, in the direction of the resultant power. The video itself will give you the best explanation.
Honestly its a bit advanced for me, but i think about the video a bit. Usually we describe a resultant vector in terms of its component vectors, both 90degrees apart. But a sine wave and a cosine wave are also 90degrees apart, and the same mathematics can be applied.


May Chen October 26, 2015 at 11:12 pm

Master Chen fixed his fulcrum point (where his eyes, mind n concentration is) of his lever and all other body parts work in relation to it : 3-way split, conversion of vertical compression of right shoulder to horizontal rotation along lever, rotation of central hinge, split between hands, split/alignment between hand right hand and left kua knee foot ! My humble understanding only…. Agree with Rick, cshum, James Tam, Kelvin and all too..


Gheorghe Firicel October 27, 2015 at 6:20 am

The first three movements no yin-yang split , the last three movements with yin-yang split?


Hugo Ramiro October 27, 2015 at 8:12 am

That’s a good take Gheorghe – I can’t tell if the first three *don’t* have a split, however the two sets do look different to my eyes, and it definitely seems that there are important quality differences between the two. The second set looks very much the way I remember Master Chen usually doing this movement, evidently tight and with a long energy going out from the front hand – rear foot.

The first set seems to have a few different directions – a horizontal twist to the rear, more of an upwards lifting on the next two, but they seem to be performed loosely, to my eyes.

We could say that with each successive iteration the line oriented itself from short (not sure about this one) and upwards, to longer and longer and more and more pointed to the front successively.


Gheorghe Firicel October 27, 2015 at 10:37 am

I am not sure of course but I like this kind of “homework”.


Sarah October 27, 2015 at 5:27 pm

Me too!


Hugo Ramiro October 28, 2015 at 8:17 am



edliaw November 1, 2015 at 4:45 pm

I think the ratio seems to change.. the last three do look longer to me.


pingwei October 27, 2015 at 10:11 am

I read Sarah’s “How to know, What to copy?” Then I watched Master Chen’s “Hands relationships” video and subsequent comments. Interesting enough to put these two together. Question, answer, then a quiz.

If I were a beginner, or try to learn six sealing four closing, I can observe (watch) the video hundreds of times, what would I see? Then, what to copy? It’s such a complex move, that’s why people see the exact same video can reach quite different conclusion/understanding. It more likely depends on the level of that person’s training. You only can see what your level allows you to see.

To copy is the starting point to learn. Focus on bigger pictures. Don’t let millions of details get in your learning. After a few months practicing, watch the video again, you can pick up a few more details you could not see before. Make corrections. Continue the process, and you will notice your progress.


charlie wishon October 28, 2015 at 12:32 am

There is a yin yang split between the pinkey, and thimb of each hand. Also from the tip of the middle finger to the base of the hand extending to the elbows. Another from bai wei to hui yin. Another from front hand to rear foot.


charlie wishon October 28, 2015 at 12:33 am

Thumb. Sorry


charlie wishon October 28, 2015 at 12:45 am

My main focus is usually front finger to rear elbow alignment. With head , frot knee and center not moving.


edliaw November 1, 2015 at 4:39 pm

I saw it as showing how the movement splits with different centers. Each center seems to be on the same line (so maybe it’s just one axis vs many centers?), but I’m not sure.


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